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10 excuses most Dutch people make for racism
Chandra Frank | December 5th, 2013

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Today is the day Sinterklaas and his little black slaves give candy to children, although nature got in the way somewhat. As you’re aware, “Zwarte Piet” (translated: Black Pete) is how the helpers of Saint Nicholas are known — he is white and they come complete with golliwog-style wig, pronounced red lips, speak with funny accents. Dutch authorities felt Zwarte Piet can’t be racist anymore because they removed his gold earring. This year, the Dutch can’t hide how racist this “tradition” is anymore. Everyone from the New York TimesBBC to CNN has covered it. We’ve had a few spats on Twitter, Facebook and on the blog with people (mostly Dutch, it seems) who still think blackface is clean fun. Anyway, we compiled a list of the 10 excuses most Dutch people make for racism:

1. Slavery was such a long time ago; slavery has nothing to do with Zwarte Piet. It’s just those who like to be victims who still complain about slavery. The Dutch only had a small percentage of slaves either way. Rather let’s just talk about the glorious VOC period and how the Dutch pioneered in trade.

2. The Dutch don’t even see color; everybody is equal here and blacks and whites are totally treated equally. Why else would they want to live here, right? Discrimination on the labor market? That happens to everyone, also to blonde people, you know.

3. All children like Zwarte Piet; you can’t take Zwarte Piet away from the kids, it’s all for the kids, the kids will not understand, they love it. Racist images are of course not normalised and accepted.

4. My black neighbors’ daughter likes Zwarte Piet; see even black people dress up as Zwarte Piet. Are they racist too? And people on Curacao also celebrate Zwarte Piet and they love it. If they do it then there must not be anything wrong with it, right?

5. Zwarte Piet is not Blackface; blackface is only in the USA, here it’s just different. Zwarte Piet came through a chimney and that made him black. There’s of course plenty of neutral and non-biased research done on that. And his afro wig, red lips and golden earrings are just funny. Nothing to do with stereotypes.

6. If Zwarte Piet is racist white bread is too; everything is reverse racism. You talk about the ‘Dutch being racist’? That’s racist! You want to take away Zwarte Piet from us? That’s racist! You need to respect the Dutch culture or go home. That’s not racist.

7. Opponents of Zwarte Piet are extremist; opponents must at all times refrain from trying to say anything about the national blackface hero in relation to racism. If you speak up in the public domain on Dutch institutional racism and white hegemony you are an extremist by default.

8. By opposing Zwarte Piet you are actually creating racism; we never had racism but now that these extremists and other folks kept talking about it, well yes, now you have created a divide that didn’t exist before. Racism is just magic.

9. Americans just criticize Zwarte Piet because they are so PC; it’s only folks in the USA and all the other countries that don’t understand Zwarte Piet. How do they dare criticize Dutch culture?! Let them look at themselves first. They don’t understand our Zwarte Piet and us.

10. It’s never our intention to be racist; if you think Zwarte Piet is racist, which he is not, you must understand that if the intention is not racist it can never be racist. You shouldn’t be using the word racism so lightly either way. Just don’t be offended so easily. We make fun of Dutch people, Chinese people, farmers, Negroes, everyone! That’s just Dutch culture — not racism.

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Chandra Frank

PhD Candidate at Goldsmiths College, writes on racism, feminism, colonialism and the arts. Follow her on Twitter


61 thoughts on “10 excuses most Dutch people make for racism

  1. I have heard EVERY single one of those “explanations”, every day since November 16th! Thankfully, as from tomorrow, I have another 365 days rest until I have to go through it all over again…..

    I especially love, “2. The Dutch don’t even see color; everybody is equal here and blacks and whites are totally treated equally. Why else would they want to live here, right? Discrimination on the labor market? That happens to everyone, also to blonde people, you know.”

    *sigh*

  2. Very funny, this could be about Australian racists and Aboriginals just as easy, iveheard the same dumb comments

  3. It’s a shame that all good things The Netherlands did in the past to promote equality are being washed away by the discussion of Zwarte Piet. The Dutch fought strongly against Apartheid and racism and when segregation was normal in the USA, in The Netherlands there was a safe multicultural climate. The reason Nelson Mandela visited The Netherlands not long after he was free, was because the Dutch strongly supported him and made big (political) efforts to help set him free.

    I live in The Netherlands since 1980, originally I’m from Spain. I learned about the Dutch culture and it’s customs and adapted myself to their way of life. It’s the only way to live in harmony with your enviroment. Be part of the community.

    I never encountered Zwarte Piet as racism. But that’s because the connection is not there for the Dutch people. However, I can understand that when others take a look at this tradition without any explenation, they might experience it as racism. Specialy Afro-American and African people.

    I also regret that some Dutch people try to protect the tradition of Zwarte Piet, saying it’s not racism, but at the same time they start behaving as racists. Shouting words like: “And if you don’t like it, get the f**k out of this country’. I regret that, and I truly hope that the world realises that that’s not the Dutch in general. It’s a percentage of the Dutch that lack empathy and don’t care about what others think or feel. Such people live in every country.

    So, ultimately the question remains: is Zwarte Piet racism?
    It’s not easy to answer. Today, to a lot of Dutch people it’s not racism, because they associate it with a positive cultural phenomenon. It’s a children’s festivity, and they get presents and are therefore very happy.

    However, you can’ deny it’s origin. It’s clearly that Zwarte Piet looks like the children slaves the rich white elite used to have in their homes. Maybe they were not beaten or abused. But that’s not important. They were slaves, not free. Their apperaence is therefore one that can be associated with slavery. In several paintings of that era you can see these children slaves, dressed the same way as Zwarte Piet. Someone must have taken that as an example for Zwarte Piet when the tradition was formed. Furthermore it’s totally clear that in origin the role of Zwarte Piet was of the servant and Sinterklaas the master. So yes, in that context you can say it has connections with racism.

    So it’s like a coin, it has two sides. The majority of the Dutch love the tradition of Zwarte Piet and never associated it with slavery. So to them it’s like someone is trying to steal something valuable from them.

    I think that it’s a good think we have a discussion about it. And I think we have to listen to eachother. It’s the only way to build a bridge to better understanding one another.

    The tradition might change in the future, but I think it has to be a process of awearness by the Ducth themselves. This year, they’ve decided to loose the golden earrings Zwarte Piet wears. And there are already Dutch who say it would be a good thing to have Piet in different colors. So there’s something going on already.
    Small steps…

    Meanwhile I would like to stress once again, that I have experianced The Netherlands as a very open country, supporting equality and making itself strong to protect fairness and justice.

    (Please ignore the grammatical mistakes I’ve made while typing this response. I had little time to reply and no acces to auto-correction)

  4. I say if it’s not a big deal, then they should have no problem making this Pete character white and then we can call this a day. I hear that is what happened in the US when the tradition hit the shores with the elves and all. They can act as silly and goofy as they want in their own skin.

  5. Wow this is bull shit its fucking tradition of our country and not yours so just fuck off

  6. Uh oh, it appears that someone is having difficulties coping with the fact that someone is making a point about a phenomenon I’d like to call Dutch hypocricy: Self-centered jiveness and delusions about one’s own (imaginary) superiority. And, ironically, the phenomenon is clearly reflected on this foul comment of Swaggr.

  7. The black people on here just hate white people…you can see how the envy us….they have to write stuff about us. Just leave us alone…go back to where you guys come from. Then there wouldn’t be racisim. Ok

  8. quote:”Anyway, we compiled a list of the 10 excuses most Dutch people make for racism:”

    no you didnt, you compiled a list of 10 excuses some Dutch people make for zwarte piet.
    I understand that zwarte piet is considered racism, but making an excuse for zwarte piet is not the same as making an excuse for racism.

  9. The true meaning of Zwarte Piet and Sinterklaas is, that Zwart Piet is a symbol against slavery. Sinterklaas was a saint who freed slaves and took them in as paid helpers. Every time someone saw Sinterklaas and his black helpers, they were reminded of the fact that they were free men and women and that they were paid for their labor. It is sad that an act of kindness from such a long time ago, is twisted and turned into the exact opposite.

  10. Hello Chandra Frank,

    correction: “his little black slaves” are servants (knechten), and they’re moors, not blacks.
    About the points you mention, these are not “excuses”, they’re facts. I’ll discuss a few:

    The first point, ” slavery has nothing to do with Zwarte Piet” is stated literally on the Meertens Institute’s website (Zwarte Piet FAQ). It’s written by historians and ethnographers, ie, people that actually know what they’re talking about. But I suspect this would be what you sarcastically refer to as “neutral and non-biased research”, while of course it’s white supremacist propaganda created by blue-eyed white devils.. it’s all a conspiracy, quick get your aluminum hat!!

    “Zwarte Piet is not Blackface; blackface is only in the USA” that is correct (well, it existed in the UK too). The Netherlands has never had a tradition of minstrel shows.
    Can you provide any shred of evidence to the contrary?

    “Americans just criticize Zwarte Piet because they are so PC; it’s only folks in the USA and all the other countries that don’t understand Zwarte Piet”
    This is mostly correct. In my experience, Americans are completely obsessed by/paranoid about `race’, `diversity’, etc. They start talking about it 5 minutes into any conversation, and have ready-made opinions on societies and cultural phenomena they don’t know the first thing about. Does that sound familiar?
    Concerning `all the other countries’, do you realize that festivities exist all over the world that involve black masks or black facepaint? There’s Moros y Cristianos for example, which is celebrated in the spanish-speaking world. It refers to the moors that ruled spain and portugal for seven centuries, well before the period of transatlantic slavery.
    St Nicholas has black(ened) helpers all over Europe, they have pre-christian roots:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus
    There is no historic proof that these were the origin of ZP, but there are striking resemblances (birch twigs, chains, abduction in bags)
    And it exists in the US as well. At Mardi Gras in new Orleans you will see hundreds of african-americans in blackface. I’m not aware of anybody complaining about that.

  11. Nopes, the Dutch never meant to be racist – it’s the foreigners…they seem to see too much racism in everything the Dutch do and say. It’s just the stupid immigrants to blame- the Dutch “mean it well”.

    NOT! If only the war did break out, it would finally allow me, to show some Dutchies how it feels like to be captivated like a slave! how i would LOVE to grab them, forcefully have them fucked by 100 men, cut their belly open -very, very, verly slowly, in front of their horrendous dutch native ugly looking WIVES, and then hang them bleeding on a tree – like they did to native Africans, get what i mean?

    Well, let me wake you up, shall I: why don’t you google on youtube ‘wilders less moroccans’. If you don’t come up with a zillion hits about how Racist the country is, they your must be BLIND.
    If that still doesn’t convince you, then google on youtube ‘duindorp racist’, and you will find yourself face to face with people OPENLY making racist propaganda!! I am talking about dutch etnic people walking by honest working ‘2nd generation’ DUTCH citizens (from turkish or whatever great-great grandfather heritage, but holding DUTCH passport), and these Dutch simply throw in stones into these poor people’s windows and do all sorts of things until they force them to leave.

    You may think “in a respectable non-racist country, surely the POOOLIIIICE force would put a stop to it? Yes, that would be so normal to think, wouldn’t it. In civilized places like the US of A, they do. But in the backward racist country of the Netherlands, which coincidently invented the word APARTHEID, AFTER the english left South Africa, which did not know apartheid then! (check that on wikipedia),… its seems (to the police and government) completely acceptable to bully anything not 100% pure etnic Dutch. You see, immigrants are an unter Mensch race to the Dutch, don’t you get it?

    So then what should immigrants do that get stuck in the Dutch pigs’ mess? easy: if you open a business, do NOT open it in NL. Open it in HK, Dubai, your old ‘home’ country. Anywhere, but do NOT GIVE ONE RED CENT of your business generated TAX TO THE DUTCH RACIST GOVERNMENT. Hit them in their pocket. Smile when you see them, even tell them, “who the fuck would WANT to be resident in high tax NL, right?” why would you contribute to Dutch, if you CAN have a way out?
    – after all, you know how that you CAN fuck them back. Dutch after all, deserve nothing less, after their demonstration of just how much, they intensily HATE YOU. So: bring a product to the dutch market, suckkkkkkkkkkkkk their white ugly-faced-early-aged population EMPTY by selling them your product well under normal price level (btw did you notice how quick the cloggie girls develop aging signs on their face compared to healthier youthful looking ‘immigrants’?), and make sure you reside OUTSIDE NL to be able to contribute your tax in that other host country that DOES welcome you. Have FUN sucking the life out of them :)

  12. Dear Immigrants Strike BACK,

    It’s kind of ironic that you accuse a whole people (the Dutch) of being racists. That’s racism in itself!
    And what a shame your piece of work here above contains so much hate. Hate won’t solve any problems…

    Do you hold a grudge for something that has happened to you or your family? Don’t blame the people of a country but blame the individuals that did you wrong. A single person, a group of people or a goverment… you choose. But not the whole population of a country!

    How nice of you to name some individuals like Wilders to make a point. Wilders does not represent the whole Dutch community. As you might know, there are racists between all people and countries of the world.

    The first dicrimination that should be banned is the one of economical inequality. 10% of the world population has almost anything (or enough) and the other 90% are struggeling to survive.

    As long as people are being exploited and held as economical slaves (the new kind of slavery) we won’t be able to cope with the problems of present racism.

    We can debate about the past; yes, a lot of countries have been wrong in the past. Spain, Portugal, England, The Dutch, Italy and others traded African men and women as slaves. But let’s not forget that those poor people were sold to the Europeans by African enemy tribes. The chain of guilty parties is longer than you might think.

    But how can we turn the wheels of time? Sometimes I wish it could be done. But it’s impossible. Cause if we would correct all the wrongs we also should give the whole America’s back to the natives from whom it was stolen by the so called “more civilised’ white Europeans.

    We better build bridges to change things not destroy them. Dialogue and understanding others is the long way, but the only one that works. I know it sounds idyllic but I do still believe in the power to reach out and help eachother.

    I truly hope you can change your view on the Dutch. In it’s base it’s a very multicultural society that has it’s problems but is not per definition a racist one.

  13. As long as the Dutch government is allowing racism to dominate (like allowing hate speech by Wilders or Duindorp), I think, we can fair and square say that ALL the Dutch are at fault for letting it happen! definitely all those dutch journalists who don’t let a day go by without inflaming the situation with yet another article supporting racist views.

    Striking back and hating the white for what they have done is NOT racist. It is anger WITH a cause. That can’t be said about the dutch’s intolerance today towards immigrants, including East-Europeans. That can’t be said about the Dutch’s colonial past, or its government allowing Shell to operate for almost 100 years in South Africa (exploiting the black). The Dutch did not have an excuse to do all that, and that’s why it IS called ‘RACISM’. Immigrants at the other hand have a damn good reason to be angry, that’s NOT racism, that’s anger, and yes, if you want to call it hate, it is hate as well – but NOT racism.

    There will never be a reconciliation between immigrants and the Dutch. Don’t kid yourselves. Immigrants will always pretend they can get by with your silly demands. But they will NEVER ASSIMILATE to YOUR culture. You see, in the USA, they don’t ask immigrants to ASSIMILATE, they just ask them to integrate and keep their identity and cultural background. What Netherlands does, is forcing people to reject their roots and embrace christianity (not even letting them enjoy orthodox christianity or anything else ‘weird’) and embrace your fucking stroopwafels culture, to end up in a cancerous state, just like most of the Dutch population. Dutch like to think of themselves as ‘Uber mensch’. But if you google about Dutch, and how they are perceived by almost ANY other country, the number 1 trait is just how fucking ARROGANT Dutch are, and how they think they are ‘better’.

    http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2686/Binnenland/article/detail/774929/2006/06/27/Meer-kanker-onder-allochtonen-door-westerse-leefstijl.dhtml

    Dutch are just a bunch of cultureless losers.

  14. And please don’t even get me started about ‘human exploitation’!!!!!

    Name just ONE, just ONE Multinational which isn’t ‘western’ and which exploits people in poor countries? how come all the exploitation we hear about, like the Bangladesh (unsafe) clothing factories, all those underpaid/overworked chinese Apple Iphone factory workers…are ALL WORKING FOR THE WESTERN MULTINATIONALS??????

    The western culture IS an exploitative CULTURE. It IS evil. Don’t deviate from the facts, by starting about ‘human slavery’. In 2014, not a single 3rd world country exploits humans more, than the West does. They used to do it in colonialism. Now they are doing it JUST THE SAME.

    That’s why they could build their wealth! they stole everything, including labour hours from poor countries, gold, oil. The west and Netherlands have a history of ROBBERY AND SLAVERY.

    There will NEVER be reconciliation. NEVER.

  15. Dear Immigrants Strike BACK,

    Thank you for your reply. I can tell you that there are a few parts of your reply on which I agree. But let me start by telling you what I do not agree with.

    First of all, unfortunately freedom of speech makes it possible for racist groups to freely speak about their opinions. That’s not only the case for Mr. Wilders but for every racist group in the world were the law of freedom of speech counts. So, the KKK in the USA and the NAZI groups in Europe are aloud to speak and be heard. It’s an ugly side of a very important law to my opinion.

    Furthermore, you can’t blame a murderer’s child for the actions of his father. It’s very important to judge individuals for their actions. Anger with a cause doesn’t make racism legal. And saying that you hate the white for what their ancestors have done is shortsighted. What you’re doing is called generalising.

    One thing I can give you is the fact that a lot of white bloodlines are ahead of others due to the fact that they have gained richdom by the blood of slaves and other abused minorities. But how can we correct that? As I told you before if you believe in giving back everything to the rightfull ‘owners’, let’s start by giving the Americas back to the natives. I believe that the Earth is our greatest treasure and belongs to all of us and nobody at the same time. I also believe we’re destroying her, our mother. And that the Economic systems has made it possible to give power to a few and make it a struggle for almost everyone else…

    I also think it’s strange that you focus primarily on the Dutch. Other European countries (and also non-European) have done similar crimes in the past. Spain (one of my origins) has a great history of violence. In the middle-ages with the enquisition. How many people haven’t they killed accusing them of being non-believers, witches and so on? And numourous other countries participated in the slave trade. Why are you so angry with the Dutch? Is it a personal experience you’ve had? Do you live in The Netherlands? Did you experience all these things you write about or have you been reading all this stuff?

    I live the Netherlands since 1980. The identity of this country has changed a lot! When I came to The Netherlands in the early 80’s the Dutch culture was very existent. But today a lot of other cultures have blended in. Do you know that there are a lot of mosks in this country? You can live in the Netherlands no matter what religion you have. As long as you keep to the law, like every citizen.

    Of couse there will always be people who say terrible things on television about other cultures. There will always be racists in every country. And yes, the papers write about those things cause it sells! Fear has always been a tool to control the people. So goverments might also have their interest using fear at their advantage… It’s very complicated to sum all the thing that happen in The Netherlands. One of the reasons people begin to sound right winged is also the forming of one Europe as a state. It has been forced upon the Dutch and it has brought nothing but trouble. The Euro has made the population poorer and the central bank is the people’s enemy nr. 1 worldwide! Believe that.

    On the things I agree with you:

    Multinationals. All of them western? Well yes, the most. Watch out for China, cause we’re gonna hear from them in near the future. They got a lot of the world’s gold in possession!!!
    Shell? Yeah, agree with you. I don’t like multinationals. And in fact, they are runned by the same families that withhold the real power in the world. It’s a small club with a lot of descendants and followers.

    But not only Western countries contribute to this system. Corrupted goverments and dictatorships in African, South American an Asian countries are making it possible too. It would be nice to see an Alliance of the so called “third world” countries. Making a fist and saying: NO MORE! We are going to ask decent prices for our products and we are going to make sure the people in these countries benefit from it! Sounds like a fairytale isn’t it? There’s always a goverment or dictator that profits from this system and puts his needs before the ones of the people.

    I also agree on the fact that you say the West has a history of robbery and slavery. As I said before, a lot of wealth is gained by robbery, murdering, genocide an so on. It is regretable that this knowlegde has made you believe there can be no reconciliation.

    I think that 200 years from now, when the human race looks back on our period, they will say: ‘our ancesters were very primitive and so cruel!’ (that’s in fact what we think about ourselves 200 years ago) – ‘Look what they’ve done to the earth and to eachother!’

    I think that 200 years from now, being white will be a minority. Are you familiar with “Fear of a black planet’? (by Public Enemy) – That’s why a lot of wealthy white people are scared of other cultures. They don’t want any mixing.

    I don’t mind it at all. As long as two people love eachtother they belong together no matter their appearance.
    I see people as equals, and I judge them by their actions and not their appearance. I am considered ‘white’ and I live in the Netherlands. My passport says Dutch.
    I have an ok life. compared to a lot of people I have wealth. But I struggle to meet ends too. I have worries wondering if I will have enough money to provide my daughters a good education.
    I teach my children to be fair, think free, form an opinion, ask questions, doubt any subject and most importantly; respect another person and judge them by their actions and no other subject.

    I regret that you think I am a bad person. Cause when you speak of the Dutch, you are also talking about me. I hope you can change your way of thinking and can start to believe there are people that share your disappointment in history and the unfairness of it all. But we can’t turn back the clock. We have to move forward. That’s why I believe that there has to be some kind of revolution that makes an end to the unfair system we live in. That means that a small group of people will have to surrender power. It can be done if people start to unite. Greed is the desease that reigns right now…
    Can it be done? I think it can… It has happened before in France… Ask mr. Guillotine. ;)

    Dear immigrants Strike BACK, I know you won’t agree with me on everyything I wrote down. And I await your reply and will read it with great interest.

    I won’t be replying again cause I believe that we can continue this discussion for hours and hours and days and days…

    I just hope I have planted a seed, an idea. I made you doubt a little bit. Doubt about the fact that not every white person is bad. And that punishing a white innocent person because ancesters violated others is not the answer.

    Please don’t become the monster you disgust!!!

  16. ========== Rwanda genocide started with its government channeling hate via media ====
    (just like the Dutch do today with ‘freedom of speech’ mantra

    http://www.idrc.ca/EN/Resources/Publications/Pages/IDRCBookDetails.aspx?PublicationID=131

    The news media played a crucial role in the 1994 Rwanda genocide: local media fuelled the killings, while the international media either ignored or seriously misconstrued what was happening.”

    “This is the first book to explore both sides of that media equation. The book examines how local radio and print media were used as a tool of hate, encouraging neighbours to turn against each other. It also presents a critique of international media coverage of the cataclysmic events in Rwanda. Bringing together local reporters and commentators from Rwanda, high-profile Western journalists, and leading media theorists, this is the only book to identify and probe the extent of the media’s accountability. It also examines deliberations by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda on the role of the media in the genocide”

    The hidden role of FRANCE in the Rwanda story:
    http://www.english.rfi.fr/africa/20140410-twenty-years-after-genocide-france-and-rwanda-give-different-versions-history
    “Paul Kagame’s renewed accusations led Paris to boycott Monday’s genocide commemoration ceremony in Kigali, but also sparked considerable soul-searching over the allegations in the French media.”

    ==========

    The role of Dutch in Rwanda story: ICC in the Hague purposely never bothered to investigate Rwanda genocide, until it was much to late. The internet is full of articles pointing to Dutch selectiveness. This may be explained by the fact, the Dutch are THE mouth piece of the White ‘Uber Mensch’

    Additionally, since the subject is about the Dutch, Dutch have also not only invented the word ‘Apartheid’ in South Africa (Dutch came after the English in S.A., while the english up to then never bothered to invent nor use a word such as ‘apartheid’). In other words, the Dutch have knowingly SEGREGATED the S.A. population, creating lower social classes / taking away their human DIGNITY.

    The Dutch repeated this within their own country, by inventing the word ‘allochtoon’ – a word that is used to underline a group of immigrants is not ‘fit’ for Dutch society. (please check from 10th minute in the video). It is remarkable that chinese (referring to newcomer chinese only) are never called immigrants (while they are both illegal AND do not pay taxes on their occasional work and do not speak a word Dutch). E-EU are called ‘westers allochtoon’, to ensure they won’t be mixed up with the underdog called ‘allochtoon’ who is usually called that way, just because of the colour of his skin DESPITE A) speaking the local language fluently like any native B) holding dual nationality including the Dutch one C) having grandparents who also hold dual nationality including Dutch one D) paying his taxes. Surely, we can safely call the Dutch racist? this dutch professor on youtube clarifies exactly how the word ‘allochtoon’ was created and applauded by the dutch government, and how it created a new ‘apartheid’ right in the Netherlands up to 2014!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwBGMDHQZ_4

    I do think French can be racist. German can be. But Dutch by far, outrank them, globally.They not only helped kill the jews with their fantastic ‘GBA’ people’s address registration system where they registered everybody up to his 3rd generation grandparents based on ancestry and nationality (!!!!).. how easy was it for the Germans to quickly trace jews in GBA municipality systems? well, it WAS very easy, because most jews were killed in the Low lands of Netherlands.
    How easy could it be if they wanted to trace ‘allochtoons’? Does the UK register ancestry in such a racist/seggregating way, like writing down ‘Mr Smith on Brighton Road no6 is a 5ht generation Paki’….NO, the UK does NOT. But the Dutch do. In fact, out of all EU countries: ONLY the Dutch do!

    Combine the Dutch’s efforts of recording all bloodlines up to your great grandparents inside 1 system, with their crazy ‘freedom of Speech’ mantra, …add some Rwanda-like ‘media hype’ (under the ‘freedom of speech blanket’) to instill hate against the ‘allochtoon’ via tv or some spokes person like their Wilders guy, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all, if neighbours start harrassing or even killing their allochtoon neighbour, just like they already do TODAY in places like the Dutch village ‘Duindorp’. Why would Dutch citizens (excluding the ‘unter mensch 3rd generation Dutch passport holder who is of course not a ‘real’ dutch citizen but more like an unwanted ‘allochtoon’) be any different to the Rwandese? They are not. In fact, they are worse: Dutch INVENTED apartheid.
    Dutch are the -sorry to say- the ones who invented racism, and then went on giving more economic rights to the ‘wanted’ as opposed to the ‘unwanted’ by implicetly saying ‘black S-Africans’ should be slaves (and paid low wages as such)…or ‘allochtoons’ should be left jobless (or if you must hire them, then make them work overtime for free AND underpay them and NEVER let them get to be a manager even if they are the best for the job). THAT is racism. And it is 100% Dutch made.

    I agree with some posters: we should never forgive the white race for what they did. You can’t do racism against whites, like shutting them out from jobs, because THEY (the whites) control their whites’ media. You can’t possibly go out there and stereotype the white worker and then get all multinationals to shun hiring a ‘white’. That kind of racism isn’t accessible to the immigrant. But what immigrants can do, is raising their kids with awareness of just how evil the white mind is. You can teach your kid to never get absorbed by the idea that he will be looked at as being an equal to a local. Because your kid isn’t. In the UK (who tend to be more multi racial) they have indian CEO’s etc. But in other countries, like Netherlands, research shows that Dutch basically refuse to have immigrants in high positions.

    Never forget. Never forgive.

  17. Dutch as a mouth piece of what they refer to as ‘the international community’ (read = the whites) on CNN. It was the Dutch that agreed to hand over moslim Nato/UN employees to the Milosovic and his killers in Yugoslavia’s Sebrenica. They were told by the ‘international community’ to go sit there, since NL is a ‘small country’ and as such they will easily be forgiven for ‘being so naive to hand over moslims so easily’. This is not me saying so, but a Court, who found the Dutch guilty of allowing a genocide to take place ON THEIR GROUNDS. NL, just like Sweden (in the case of Snowden allegedly ‘raping’ 2 women in their sleep) are nothing more but mouth pieces of the white Uber mensch.

    I would say, of all people, the Dutch are the one people not to be trusted! Never invest your wealth in NL, never EVER trust they will protect anything but their OWN interest. They are the sickest people of mankind.

  18. ” This represents the largest percentage of Jews to die from a particular country with the exception of Poland.”

    At the time of Holland’s capitulation, approximately 140,000 Jews resided in the Netherlands. By the time of the war’s end, the Nazis had deported 107,000 Jews out of Holland. Of these, only 5000 survived to return home following the war and 30,000 managed to survive in hiding or by other means. Thus,over 75% of Holland’s Jews perished at the hands of the Nazis.

    This represents the largest percentage of Jews to die from a particular country with the exception of Poland.”

    #### Excerpt from Linda Woolf (PHD) #### thus the dutch have a history, over and over again, showing they are a dangerous species indeed.

    http://www2.webster.edu/~woolflm/netherlands.html

  19. Ì am a chinese i know 100% that the dutch is racism!
    they main focused on skin color included discrimation on politics!
    when i join those military at night, i surround it by the those dutch people
    they are the similar like the “russian neo nazi” who call them self caucasian is superior!

    THEY TRY TO DISCRIMINATED ME EVERYTHING ABOUT MY CULTURE included hitting and bullied me.
    It is so worst that i cannot live in those millitary room anymore, so i decide to try to escape
    to the other room but i failed, because the leader wont me go back to room.

    To the Chinese people do not stay behind them especially in the military room!!!

  20. I am so embarrassed. I actually believed that there was a place in the world where racism didn’t exist. I first heard about it a few nights ago on “Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel” about the soccer games. I am a huge fan of Shani Davis, and from what i understand, he loves it there. One of my Drs. has visited there several times, and he loves it. I was about to start saving up to go for a visit; maybe even re-locate in a few years. LOL. I think not. I’ll keep my money in my pocket, and my Self in the US. At least i already know my enemy here.
    Thanks for the education. I appreciate it.

  21. Dear AuntKimmie,
    Unfortunatelly Racism exist everywhere. Judging a whole country for what some of it’s inhabitants think or do is racism too. Humanity has still a long way to go.

  22. You hit the nail on the head with this article.
    I’m embarrassed to say it but I avoid this subject with Dutch people now because a lot of them are so persistent/not open-minded to my arguments and just completely miss the point when it comes to racism as a social construct.

    A lot of it has to do with lack of education, Dutch people are not educated at all when it comes to non-whiteness in my opinion. They ignore slavery and colonialism, and when they do pay attention to it (in schoolbooks for instance), it will only be covered in the most minimal way possible. I don’t think Dutch people are awful people at all, but I do think they do not understand racism and therefore a lot Dutch people seem ignorant to me.

  23. Dear Niya,
    My compliments on the way you put it down. This is the first reaction that agrees with the article but doesn’t generalise the dutch as a racist people.
    Thank you for your wise words.

  24. Dutch people know everything about slavery, they just don’t bring it up every minute. We have better things to do. We live and let eachother live.

    Americans find everything racist, seriously, it’s ridiculous.

  25. Oh for goodness sake, the world wouldn’t suffer if Zwarte Piet went away. Why are people so persistent when it comes to justifying their need for something when it offends others, when that thing is of no real importance. They should just have a burial for him, mourn his death, if need be, and get on with it.

  26. I find this article remarkable. The writer writes down ten arguments to defend Zwarte Piet, but none of them are refuted. All these arguments seem pretty legit if you ask me. The whole debate isn’t even about if Zwarte Piet needs to be adjusted or not, if people are offended by it and we have to make a compromise or not, it has become a polarised war on alleged ‘racists’. These people have never had bad intentions nor taught their kids to hate black people. It has never been an issue. So as long as these arguments aren’t refuted but implied to be non-legit, this article lacks any underpinning for the statement that these arguments aren’t legit. Sorry.

    And then let me state again, since people don’t seem to get it. The Dutch hang on to this tradition first and foremost not because of Zwarte Piet, but because they are made to be racists when this has never been the intention from day one.

  27. *sigh*
    This debate is getting really tiring. I get how other countries and cultures look down upon the ‘zwarte piet’ tradition, i really do. It’s just a matter of persistence of cultural legacy versus political correctness.
    What i can’t handle though, is this bunch of arrogant individuals generalizing an entire country on one subject, it’s sickening really. What about traditions in the USA? Last time i checked there’s a link between thanksgiving and slaughtering the native inhabitants of the country… Maybe thanksgiving should be banned too? Oh, and don’t forget the Spanish religious fests. The costumes look like KKK rags. Ban it?
    The search for racist intentions in a totally not-meant-to-be-racist thing is just as despicable as someone being intentionaly, whole hearted racist.
    The dutch don’t celebrate having slaves, just like US citizens don’t celebrate having almost completely erased an entire culture with its people from the face of the planet.
    In other words: DON’T SEARCH FOR RACISM IF THERE IS NO INTENTION FOR RACISM.
    If anything, feeding this debate is just another foothold for actual racists to persist their ideas.
    With every line i type the chance of getting a huge bucket of proverbial shit thrown my way (“check your facts”, “you’re an idiot”, the regular ‘grammar nazi protocol’ etc.) increases, so i’ll leave it at this.

    Lots of love.
    – I’m not here to preach, only to share my personal look on things -

  28. In my humble opinion the whole discussion about Zwarte Piet is the tip of the iceberg for a deeper social unrest.
    What i hear ( as a Dutch guy) from a lot of foreigners is the following comments:
    ….but the Netherlands were so very well known for their tolerance towards foreigners.
    ….the Dutch are always so hospitable and friendly towards foreigners
    …. the Dutch (let’s generalize) are so racist these days, look at their tradition where the let countless of black pete’s work for a whealthy and (even worse)….white person.

    Like Miss Shepperd from the UN even said: It is not necessary to cancel your Sinterklaas tradition at all. The only thing is say is that the relationship between Sinterklaas en Zwarte Piet is problematic.
    The relationship between a black subject (with the features of african descend)
    and a white master needs to change.

    For the record, the Zwarte Pieten were slaves that were freed by a wealthy man called Sinterklaas.
    This figure of Sinterklaas could not stand to see those black people being treated like slaves.
    So he bought them and gave them their freedom.
    Out of a deeply felt thanks towards Sinterklaas the freed slaves offered him to come and work for him. Not as slaves but as employees who would be paid for the work they did.
    So now, Sinterklaas is a wealthy man with employees. Nothing wrong with being an entrepreneur with employees.
    But…. since the Zwarte Pieten have unmistakebly African features, there seems to be a problem.
    The whole discussion about Zwarte Piet being a racist image does not concern his golden earrings, or his big red lips, his afro hairdo or colorful clothes….. nope.
    The whole racist discussion had been triggered by a handful of colored people in Amsterdam that “felt” discriminated (and that’s a whole different thing then actually “being” discriminated) by the festivities of Sinterklaas. A wealthy white man with black people as his subjects.
    So the discussion is about the fact that a white man, having black employees is by definition a white slaveholder? I know, it sounds totaly ridiculous and far fetched, but this is it.
    I repeat Miss Shepherd form the UN once more: The relationship between a black subject
    and a white master needs to change.

    That having said, i like to get back to the fact that indeed there is more racism in my country then let’s say 20 years ago. I fully agree on that and its a bad development.
    What i totaly miss in the discussion is the question why.
    Why have the people in the Netherlands more problems with foreigners then before?
    Why do the people defend a fictional character like Zwarte Piet with all their might?

    Maybe because our borders have been open to anyone who wanted to live here.
    You’re welcome if your black, brown, yellow, red, white. The Netherlands were probably
    one of the first countries where so many nationalities found their safe haven.
    Whether they came her by choice or by accident you and your funny culture were welcome here.
    Let’s admit it, we all have our funny things in our culture that will raise eyebrows to those who are unfamiliar with them.

    I know Dutch folks that lived downtown and that have seen their neighbourhood transform throughout the years.
    First everyone was Dutch and we understood eachother like no other.
    Slowly new cultures came into the neighbourhood. We got to learn new cultures en we tasted new and unfamiliar foods. The Dutch welcomed all in their neighbourhood and gave them space to be themselves, with all their cultural peculairities.
    Slowly but surely the tables started to turn. More and more people from abroad came into the Dutch neighbourhoods, bringing their own cultures. But a lot of these different cultures seemed to have a problem with the way certain Dutch people live.
    The Dutch way of living was not holy enough, or not descend enough to the taste of some of our guest-cultures.
    The original Dutch have been driven out of their own neighbourhoods and if you come in there now, you need a pocketbook with different languages to even ask for directions in your own town because no one speaks Dutch there. You have to be respectful to believes you have never even heard of, but the religious and cultural background from foreign people became more important then those of the dutch.
    That’s why you can find Mosque’s nowadays in old Dutch neighbourhoods.
    And if you were having a hard time coping with all the new foreign changes, the first thing all them new cultures were ready to say is: You Dutch are so intolarant and racist towards colored people and people of different believes.

    I beg your pardon??????
    We welcomed all of them different cultures, we tried to accept all your funny cultures and now “we” are the ones who need to addept to the imported cultures by denying our own culture and tradition because someone might be offended by it? Any idea how offending that is?
    What if i come over to your house and start demanding that you change all your routines because they don’t suit me or my beliefs?
    How offended would you be?

    And there is the reason that the Dutch so fiercely defend Zwarte Piet.
    They are fed up. They are sick and tired of hearing that their way of live, their way of practicing relegion, their way of raising up their children and their stupid racist traditions are not good enough and offending.
    That they are infidels, that all dutch girls are whores because they don’t dress properly enough
    It has been an accumulation of decades where a lot of Dutch people feel that all cultures count in the Netherlands, except the Dutch culture. That feeds anger, and that anger came unfiltered forward when a handful of colored people started to “feel” discriminated by Zwarte Piet.
    The feelings of 22 colored people seem to be more important then the feelings of a whole nation.
    This is how a lot of Dutch people feel, that there own cultural background is worth less then any culture that was imported into the Netherlands.
    The political correctness made it impossible to have your freedom of speech, because even questioning a new culture was being racist even before you had the chance to ask about it.
    The whole Zwarte Piet discussion therefore exploded in an avalange of angry, underbelly reactions in the Netherlands.
    No nuance to be found, just an explosion of “being fed up and now we are gonna say it all”

    Another funny thing is that when a white man says bad stuff about any colored group of people it’s called racist.
    When a colored man says bad stuff about white people we call it: cultural differences

    Concluding: I can very well understand that there are people who might be offended by the figure of Zwarte Piet.
    Thing is, this whole story started because 22 people “felt” discriminated by a tradition that is celebrated by more then 16.000.000 people. If you live in a open multicultural society, you might get offended by people who see things differently then you, because of there different cultural background. You deal with that, because the world still doesn’t evolve just around you.
    You don’t have to like the Sinterklaas tradition, just as much as i don’t have to like, let’s name something, the fridayprayer by Muslims and their noisy guys on top of their mosque tower.
    I don’t have to like it, i don’t have to embrace it. I am free to think about it whatever i want.
    But i try to respect the background of it. I try to respect the cultural differences.
    Point is, that it’s usualy a one way street.
    The Dutch feel they have to accept and respect any culture that is imported, yet the imported cultures do not return the favor.
    That’s the part that most of the time is being forgotten.
    If the reason for shutting down any tradition, religion, or culture because someone might get offended by it
    then human culture as a whole can be thrown away. There will always be someone offended by something or someone.

    For the record i had no intention whatsoever to defend Zwarte Piet, i merely am trying to show that there is more to the whole thing than just a white guy, painted black, acting funny.
    Not saying i am the beholder of the truth either. It’s basicly a long and boring observation i wrote here.

    If you actually made it to the end of this loooong reaction, congratz and thank you for taking the time to read it, whether you disagree with me or not. :)

    Have a great day
    Elon

  29. Hello Elon,

    That pretty sums up how many Dutch feel today.

    I hope the mutual respect between cultures can florish again. But that’s a door that has to open both ways…

  30. I really hope it will come from both ways but after reading a few more comments on here i can see that might be a long wait. The imagery some people have of white people in general does not leave much room for conversation. All white men are racist, some seem to think. I can not undo what my ancestors did. I am disgusted by it and feel angry when i read our history. Therefor I try to treat everyone equal. I try to do it better, but some people that left reactions on here, still rather see me hanging from a tree. Why? Because my ancestors have wronged black people in the past and nowadays i am wrong because i live in a western world and western countries all abuse black people. You know…..in the end, i am afraid people don’t want to reconciliate. they want more hate,anger, pain and bloodshed. It seems to be the only way humans are able to solve their problems. Kill the other guy and its solved. Truly sad that humans can not rise above that :(

  31. Elon, I’m an Englishman who’s lived in your country for a few years now (thereabouts anyway, I’ve been going back and forth for a while but now I’m settled with my Dutch partner). Your post was a fractal of the attitudes I’ve come across from the native Dutch since I became acquainted with the Netherlands. I suppose what I want to ask you is this – why do you feel so defensive when other cultures feel they have a right to an input into yours? Your idea of a model society seems to be very segregated – people with different beliefs living together but apart, and everything thinking that’s a darn good thing, thank you very much. Do you think there could be a small remnant of the verzuiling in your way of thinking?
    I’m a foreigner, so obviously I might be wrong, but in my daily interaction with the Dutch I am confronted quite regularly with this kind of thinking. Maybe that accounts for the tendency for you lot to dig your heels in when challenged on stuff like Zwarte Piet – “we keep our noses out of your affairs, so you do the same to us”. It’s not really helpful when there’s such an unwillingness to examine your cultural values and let things evolve. What would be useful is for people with opinions like yours to check their privilege, stop thinking there’s a bunch of PC lunatics out there trying to ruin the fun for everyone, and to try and let the discussion happen without feeling like you’re being attacked. It’s not that hard, mate, really it isn’t. I’m English, I honestly don’t care whether you respect my cultural heritage or not.

  32. Hello Louis,

    Thank you for your reply.
    If the long observation i wrote gives you the idea that all that i said are my personal views i’m afraid my English might have failed me.
    I think we stand on the same page.
    What i have been trying to point out is that there are many people in the Netherlands to be found who have the mindset that i described. I for one disagree with most of the viewpoints i wrote down, but i encounter many fellow countrymen that tend to think this way.
    Whenever i discuss matters like Zwarte Piet i’m sometimes dumbfounded by the amount of short sighted Dutch people i hear. I have a neighbour who’s acting like he’s defending the country if he stands up for Zwarte Piet. There’s no talking to him and he gets p’d off with me if i try to reason with him about alternatives. He just doesn’t wanna hear it. (it’s like a kid putting his fingers in his ears and go: lalalalalalaaaaaaa i can’t hear you.) That’s the level of communication with these people.
    Your remark about the verzuiling sure has some truth. Never thought of that before. Good point.
    Might use that in a discussion with my neighbour. ;)
    So if i came across that i was the one who is being so defensive, i appologize.
    I tried to describe what many people in the Netherlands see as legit reasons to react so defensive.
    I don’t agree with them.
    I hope this clears things.

    Have a great day

  33. That write up was long! Nonetheless I understand your point. I wonder if there is a way immigration officials can provide ways for people to assimilate into Dutch culture; it may improve the situation. Or maybe NGOs can host events that allow people understand other people’s cultures. Where I am from this kind of dialogue has gone a long way in helping different religious groups understand each other and we have seen some improvement in the last few years. Maybe it will help different ethnic groups understand each other too.

  34. Actually, there are 2 story lines here:

    1) NL is known for its ‘tolerance’ for hundred of years, and it is tolerance in the International Trading Industry, what has led to that fame. NOT the tolerance towards the foreign immigrant per se

    2) of course there is a real problem in NL. 2014: a guy calls out racial slur to a chinese singer (a phd doctor, for God’s sake in NL because of his exceptional SKILLs). This made world news coverage. What do the Dutch do? they don’t even reprimande the man who yelled racial slur on tv!!

    THAT’s the problem in NL. In the USA, when that baseball team owner said ‘nigger’ to his gf, they banned the man from entering the baseball arena, and this guy was the OWNER!

    Immigrants in NL, feel second class. They are not represented in the judiciary. People yelling racial slur (including Wilders about Moroccans in 2014 on tv) are NEVER held accountable. Immigrants, actually feel abandonned. Most have no faith in the NL as a country. It is probably exactly what NL wants: they want to signal to them ‘get out of here, we won’t protect you / your honour / your interests anyway’.

    Recently the ICC High Court ruled that it was the Dutch army’s fault that the Sebrenica men died.
    We are 20 years down the road: not a single Dutch will ever bow and show respect to those dead. They rather hold on to their biased racism thinking for as long as they can.

    That is why Dutch are hated by Indonesians. That is why Dutch are hated by immigrants. It is exactly as it was during WW2. Dutch loved to turn in Jewish who used to be as Dutch. Dutch have no honour: THAT’s what is the underlying cultural DUTCH problem. They don’t know about showing courtesy, they don’t have manners, and they don’t know about knowing when to stop defending the wrong ideologies. NL will never ever change. Ever. And i’m taking care to get myself another nationality, even a Britisch one to me, seems to give more assurance than the Dutch do. I will bring all my wealth to the Brits. I am not on welfare, i don’t cost NL a cent. I fact, i am in the upper 5% of highest salaried people and pay a ridiculous 75% ‘crisis heffing tax’ (which most dutch don’t even knows exists, because they don’t earn that much). I am going to take all my wealth away. Not only that, my future income derived from NL soil, will be exported to the UK, and thus UK tax coffers rather than the dutch ones. That’s how much I ‘ve had it with the Dutch. To me, as an investor (and salaried member) i have more faith in the UK than in NL to protect my assets, and my family’s future.

  35. Dutch have had multiple chances, in 2014 alone, to show they are honourable people.
    You say that you can’t be held accountable for your ancestors: agree, BUT you can be held accountable for voting for people in office who do NOTHING about reprimanding a guy on national tv yelling racial slur to a poor chinese on a singing contest.

    YOU are, whether you like it or not, represented by a group of dutch in parliament. And as far as i am concerned, if they truly represent you, being an honourable man, they why, oh why, are they letting guys like Wilders get away with racial slur? or letting that gay guy get away with racial slur on national tv when he yelled at the poor chinese singer, who by the way was way, way, way more educated and skilled than most dutchies. The problem is: you still vote for those pro-racism people in parliament. And so, that’s why immigrants still have problems with the average dutch who thinks, but isn’t as innocent as he seems to be.

  36. To evii:

    Your such an idiot.

    Dutch have better things to do, you say, than worry about racism.

    Let me tell you why USA does give a damn about racism, an example:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-sterling-banned-for-life-by-the-nba-for-deeply-disturbing-comments/

    Donald Sterling, owner of a team was BANNED for life because of saying ‘nigger’.
    Why is that good? because it ENSURES that USA citizens will REFRAIN from using racial language.

    Now, Dutch have ‘better things to do’ is it? That’s why they didn’t ban Mr Gordon when he called out racial slur to the chinese, and made worldnews headlines?

    You are proud of that, aren’t you? you stupid WHITE PIG. Everyone wonders why prominent Dutch are murdered every now and then…well, it doesn’t seem too much of a mistery to me AT ALL.

  37. to AuntKimmie:

    Well, at least in the USA, they banned zillionaire Donald Sterling from ever again entering his OWN baseball team arena, when he called out the word nigger.
    In the Netherlands, they have never, not even ONCE banned anyone: not after Wilders chanted (!!! like Hitler did!) ‘less morrocans’ publically on tv, and not after this gay celebrity ‘Gordon’ made racial slur to the Chinese singer (who was a phd and invited by the Dutch government for his extremely high skills). The Dutch, are without a doubt THE most racial country, with a government that condones it too. If you want to go to NL do it, but do NOT, i repeat do NOT contribute one cent to them. They will just eat you alive after you paid your dues.

  38. Well Alexander, that was one big generalization of an entire nation. I would almost call it a racist point of view towards ALL DUTCH. (sorry for caps, i’m trying to get to your level of communication) I myself try not to generalize, then again, i’m only human (and oh lordy, Dutch too) and i tend to make mistakes.
    Therefor i like to address this to you as a person. Don’t even want to know bout any cultural background of you or color of your skin so i can be as objective as possible. Hell i don’t wanna be accused of racism. ( will be hard cuz i’m white, male and Dutch and thus by your standards a racist)
    I would like to encourage your plans of moving to the UK. Now there is a country without racism. A country with a spotless history. Take all your wealth and your big paycheck you claim you have and take it to the UK. Please go. We will all lament the fact you are leaving us deprived of your money and non-racist viewpoints. The whole of the Netherlands will probably fall to pieces without you. I for one, would like to take that risk, if it means we get rid of the likes of you as a person.

    FYI the extra crisis tax you refer to is by my knowledge 16% for people making more then €150.000. The 75% you dropped here is indeed an existing tax, but it is used for those topmanagers that receive exorbitant severance payments. If you have to pay that kind of tax…..GOOD! you moneygrabbing little winer. Take the money and go to the UK please, i’m begging you. It’s a shame that moneygrabbing scum isn’t a race. I would be proud to be a racist towards that group. Dammit. See what you did? You made me generalize an entire group of honest hardworking people like yourself.

  39. dude

    I’ts a really big tradition in the netherlands. It would be like taking away thanksgiving from the Americans.

  40. I like you, Elon, you’re a smart guy. When I come to NL next year, we should chill. If you want to add me on Google+ you can do so through my blog, newsnowlife.blogspot.com. I’d love to discuss pretty much anything with ya. We can also help each other learn each others’ languages better as well.

  41. I myself am a biracial young woman. My father is Dutch and my mother Surinamese. This appearantly puts me in the category of “allochtoon”.

    As a non-white, non-black person I have plenty of friends from all cultures. I don’t think all Dutch are racist. Most of them certainly are not overtly racist. However, as described earlier, racism comes in many forms. And there’s where the slope becomes slippery. I do believe that many white Dutchmen have racist beliefs about non-whites or immigrants. This manifests itself in making racist jokes but also in job-appliance discrimination for example.

    When the topic of Zwarte Piet is discussed, thats when their racist beliefs come to show. All of a sudden blacks should ‘fuck off’ or ‘are racist themselves’. A famous Dutch supermodel went from ‘beauty with brains’ to ‘dumb blonde bimbo’ for expressing the fact that she finds Zwarte Piet a racist tradition. It’s hypocritical. Off course there are native Dutch, usually the more educated ones, that aren’t that hateful towards anti-Zwarte Piet activists or people that are against Zwarte Piet in genersl. Not all white Dutch are evil or in denial. There are some gorgeous roses in between all of the weeds. I try to surround myself with these people.

    I pretty much agree with Elon. I would rather live in the Netherlands than in most other countries, but in general the Dutch certainly aren’t as tolerant, empathetic, moral and ‘nuchter’ as they think.

  42. You just can’t stop rascism. And I don’t understand why people are busy with Zwarte Piet after so much year. If 1 dutch man is rascist not whole Holland is. It’s like everyone wants to give us a bad name. Zwarte Piet is part of the story from Saint Nicholas. In my opinion it shows everyone how good black people are. But I don’t mind what skincolor you’ve your personality counts.

  43. Racism and intolerance are imported from other countries. Unfortunately, there are indeed Dutch, who may have been infected. The irony is that the source of infection, has totally nothing to do with the Netherlands or its culture.

  44. Dutch are heavily racist and hypocrite. Being Chinese, I am always respectful, hard working and polite, in return you get racist remarks on average twice a week. Their “fun” is putting others down hard!

  45. To all those Dutch defending themselves, saying “they really meant no harm to the minorities”.. why don’t you read some scientific books about this subject, and you will be reading a historical timeline going to way back a couple of hundred years, where the dutch, ONLY THE DUTCH have been carefully making propaganda about the “inferiority of african race”.

    this book in “google books”. written with references to Yale University docs:
    Early Modern Dutch Prints of Africa
    By Elizabeth A. Sutton

    Page 222 ……these coloured people specifically like to wear revealing dresses, and also like to steal….

    ” they like to STEAL”, get it? that’s how the cloggies made very very VERY sure that all whites look down on minorities. They did it with Indonesians, etc, etc.

    In Europe, there is a censorship going on, so it is no longer allowed to express hate towards the “whites” – because the west is now a totalitarian regime nowadays. It’s okay to say you hate non-whites, but not the other way around. So, I will leave these …………. to express what a lot of non dutch (asians, chinese, africans, eastern european, russians) would love to see happen to Dutch. For those blind to see: pretty much the world wide population (outside the so-called “International Community”- which in reality consists of ONLY the western countries) DOES have something against Dutch!

    The Dutch are the number 1 colonial power, have proven that with all their wars for so many years, they also transported african slaves, long long after it was made ‘illegal’ to trade in slaves- they just shipped them without letting them pass by Holland, and then claimed ” it’s not happening INSIDE Holland anymore, therefore it is “legal”. They will, by the way, never, ever change. Ever.
    The difference between today, and in the past is this: today, foreigners know for sure, that the Dutch will never change. Which is probably why, nobody is willing to wait anymore for the bullshit ILLUSION of betterment from Western side. The Dutch don’t want non-Dutch to be equal, ever. PERIOD.

  46. Alright. At first I was going to make intelligent statements, but after all I’ve read here, I’m just not gonna go that way. Anything intelligent a Dutch person says is still cast away as ‘racism’ except when he licks everybody’s boots, so I won’t bother. Instead, I will say it is absolutely ridiculous that the Dutch are being compared to WWII nazi people. We have put up with middle-eastern and north-african (moroccan etc) immigrants telling us how to live for too long. Most of the racism in NL nowadays is focused on the issue of the islamisation of the Netherlands. And people can’t deny it’s happening. I am a Dutch girl, married to an Italian, and I have seen so many things around me, lived through so many bad situations, and always a muslim had something to do with it. I got beaten up by a moroccan guy because I rejected him. I almost got gang-raped just because I’m Dutch (thankfully I managed to escape). Some muslim girl at work (even while I was respectful to her and her religion) told me that she will never accept Christianity as a faith, that IS is a conspiracy by zionists and that the only way for me to be saved is to convert to Islam, and to accept Allah as my God. While I stuck to the same rules she did, basically; not sleeping with men before I was married, no drinking, no smoking, praying etc. only in a different setting. When she made a mistake in saying something about the Quran, I corrected her(I’ve read the Quran mind you) and what did she do? She got me fired because I was an alleged racist! My boss didn’t even want to hear my side of the story, I could just pack my things and go! And no, I really did not say anything she could have taken as racism, she said something about a passage in the Quran and I corrected her. A mosque is build in a building which used to be a catholic church in my town, and it’s not the only one I’ve heard of. I was told I am a whore at least 3-4 times a day by young muslim men. Now, they dare not say anything, because my husband walks next to me, and he is tall, muscular and looks tough. So yeah…Racism is generally not directed at Surinamic, Antillian etc. people from what I know, which is why the discussion around Black Pete is so ridiculous to many Dutch. Sure, perhaps a lot of people felt offended by Black Pete in the past as well, but they never said anything about it and they celebrated with us! I would really hope our celebration will not be changed. The thing about Black Pete is, he’s more like the smart manager who arranges everything for Sinterklaas. He comes to bring the gifts. And actually, St. Nicolaas (Sinterklaas) bought off some slave kids, and gave them a paid job as his assistants. It is supposed to be a symbol AGAINST slavery and racism, this fest. Many have failed to point that one out, and even if we do no-one wants to hear it.

  47. Despite some of the hateful words and insults that were thrown around in a few cases, I must say that regardless of ones views, this was a very engaging and overall productive discussion!
    Of course we all don’t share the same views, that may never happen. However, what is important is that there is an open dialogue happening, and this is essential in order to achieve any sort of progress… even if it is a long time coming.
    The biggest problem when it comes to racism or any other social ill is when such realities are NOT discussed and worse, not even acknowledged. As uncomfortable or undesirable as it may be for some to have to deal with this, much less talk about it, is is absolutely necessary. Much like witnessing a violent crime occur directly in front of your eyes – if you do nothing, say nothing, or at least call for help – then you become a part of the problem.

    I have lived and/or traveled throughout EVERY continent, I have literally been around the world several times through the course of my life and can attest to the fact that RACISM EXISTS EVERYWHERE!!! This is a fact (that may not be known, or admitted to by those who are so privileged to not have to experience it in an institutionalized form)! The funny thing about racism is that is simply takes different forms in different places. In some places it is more overt where in others it is covert – or in other words not so apparent on the surface to many, but alive and well to those who are subjected to it. So of the countless countries where I have traveled, there are indeed some which appear to be ‘un-racist’ on the surface, however in reality there is NO such thing because ignorant, hateful people come from ALL backgrounds and live EVERYWHERE throughout the world!!!

    In addition to having traveled the world extensively, I also speak several languages, and have quite the cultural/ethnic mix in my own family. I have even dated others from more nationalities than I can keep track of, so most call me not only open-minded and tolerant, but a “cultural connoisseur” in fact!
    Having said that, I can respect each persons’ attempt to seek understanding in their comments (although some may have done a better job at listening and actually trying to understand opposing view points. So long as we continue to make efforts to understand one another rather than just hate each other, we may eventually continue to move forward instead of backward. And for those who don’t like it and want people to be divided, and are in support of racism and racist ideals – good luck!
    Because people of color are a majority in the world and are growing fast. We all have SOME sort of ethnic mixture in our DNA (even if several generations back), but now there are more ethnically mixed people than ever, and with this being one of the fastest growing populations around the world, the ignorant few of the future might find themselves in a bit of a pinch!

    @ELON, By the way, considering you’re a white, Dutch male (as you stated), I applaud what your wrote. Particularly your first post where you tried to explain the perspective of the Dutch Nationals in question. It was eye opening and so honest that I was touched by the raw translucence of it. Thank You for sharing! I also LOVE the way you were able to admit that perhaps you may have been wrong in an instance or two and accepted the challenge that Louis proposed to you. That was so mature of you. You really let your guard down, admitted your flaws and continued to POSITIVELY engage in discussion even with those who may have offended you. I’ve been to your country before and like Chris said, I would also enjoy chatting with you further about this and other subjects. I don’t know that we would agree on everything, but the way you handled things here is impressive!

    @SpanishDutch – Wow, wow, wow! Now YOU truly impress me. Some of your words gave me goose bumps and made my eyes well up with tears. You my dear, sound like a UN Ambassador, or some other important world leader. I don’t know what kind of job you have, but you should consider working in politics (to try to bring some sunshine and true tolerance to that corrupt world of hypocrisy). You speak/write so well, quite poetically actually. If English isn’t your first language… WOW! Your writing is even more impressive. Although I speak several languages myself, I know that translators can not properly translate everything to its intended meaning in another language. I just want to thank you as well for maintaining a positive, non-combative, non-offensive tone when countering those who expressed hate, anger or simply different opinions. I would love to stay in contact with you apart from this forum, as you seem to radiate a sort of inner peace and beautiful energy that the world needs more of! I hope you will contact me or send me your contact info, as you have brightened my day and reminded me not to lose hope, despite all of the horrific atrocities I continue to witness day in and day out. Once again, Dank u, Gracias and Thank You!

  48. Personally I don’t know what to make of this subject nevertheless I came on this site because of my strong feelings against the dispicable defense being offered to this nasty zwaart piet by the Dutch, as an African and a highly skilled migrant I think I have more than earned the right to offer my opinion. Zwaart piet is racist pure and simple! I will not stoop low to reason with those who still wanna perpetuate a racist, colonial and apartheid tradition. As a father of a new beautiful daughter of mixed race, I will never celebrate or teach her to observe that. Are the Dutch racists? I can’t paint them with a broad brush, but the system is no doubt intolerant to foreigners. Try getting a document from the geheemte or go for a test that depends on the “objectivity ” of your Dutchman (eg. Driving test) and you will begin to understand the frustration of most immigrants! System is really skewed in favor of your typical dutch and most are blind to this or stubbornly refuse to accept this. So ja the Dutch are no different from other countries but I have to add their system is rigged, discriminatory and harsh to foreigners pure and simple!

  49. Seriously though. I do not know the history of Swarte Piet in the Netherlands and it might well be blackface. But I have a genuine question. Is the universalisation – that dressing up to look black always means blackface, regardless of the place not a new kind of essentialism re the meaning of being black? Surely people should be free to dress up as other races depending on the context, culture and history and their intention?

  50. Just goes to show how completely ignorent you are of the Dutch culture. Zwarte Piet is no more racist to black people then elves are discriminatory to short people. No child is Holland is raised be believe that Zwarte Piet is anything more than Sinter Klaas’s helper. They all have different roles and titles (just like the elves) however at no point in time during my childhood was I or any of my peers led to believe that they were slaves or in any way lesser people. I’m not saying there isn’t racism in Holland, however racism is Holland usually has more to do with where you are from (like Turkey or Morocco) than the color of your skin. I spent my entire childhood in literally the worse drug infested neighborhood in the entire country and never saw anyone mistreated or discriminated against because they were black. It wasn’t till I moved to Chicago when I saw the divide that exist between races and what racism looks like. Now we have people who know nothing about Holland or its people making false claims and assertions about our traditions based on their experiences in a country where burning crosses and lynch mobs are in the mind of people still alive. (You can’t find any Dutch person alive who was involved in the slave trade) You can’t take you culture and experience and make it fit inside the box of another culture and pretend to understand and then condem. (Kinda sounds like typical American Imperialism) Just seems to me like people are just creating problems where none have ever existed….although maybe this could be the start of a new trend why don’t we come to America and condem all American parents with obese kids as child abusers because they are endangering the health of their kids…or better yet tell you that you can no longer use elves at Xmas because it is insensitive to short people or….we could mind our own business.

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